A Segment-ology TIDBIT
What if the genealogy is correct but the shared DNA is on the other side? Discard because the relationship is not from the Ancestor who passed down the DNA segment? Save because we are in fact real cousins, despite the DNA? Most of our real cousins beyond 3C won’t share enough DNA to be designated as a Match.
Same quandary with a Match sharing one DNA segment, but related two ways. Both ways cannot be through the same segment.
Now that Ancestry shows “sides” (Maternal/Paternal), I’m finding that some of the ThruLines are not on the same “side”.
Sometimes this happenstance leads to finding a genealogy error and/or finding another genealogy relationship which is compatible with the shared DNA segment – sometimes not.
With almost 50 years of genealogy research under my belt, I’m very reluctant to “discard” any true relationship. I worked for 35 years finding cousins before atDNA testing came along – I’m not going to trash tens of thousands of cousins just because they don’t share DNA with me. They certainly share Ancestry with me – and records and stories and friendships.
On the other hand, my current quest is a deep Chromosome Map – linking my DNA segments to my Ancestors. Sort of a “who is responsible” for each of my quirks. A relationship that is not based on a DNA segment, is a distraction at best… a wrong rabbit hole… a misdirection… an error!
I think the solution is to keep all the findings, but clearly mark the genetic genealogy ones. What is your take? Please leave comments.
[22CC] Segment-ology: Quandary TIDBIT by Jim Bartlett 20231224
segment-ology 
Late to the party, but agree with most of the comments made already. Everything is valuable for the genealogy. Always difficult if we are talking distant AncestryDNA ‘common ancestor’ matches without segment data. If the genealogy in the CA is sound, and many need checking, I’d still include the match in my tree. If the side conflicts I wouldn’t mark them as a ‘confirmed’ DNA match – I still use the ‘Star’ at AncestryDNA for those. Depending on the size of the segment, I would look to find the second connection, always living in hope that I can – but it could be way back and impossible.
Matches related in two ways are tricky, particularly when there’s no segment data. I usually group them to the lowest CA point – noting the dual extension to more distant CA’s. Clusters help to separate the two groups, but it is guesswork and incorrect grouping can often lead you down the wrong path for analysis of other shared matches.
Always keen to try and get these types of matches over to a chromosome site – when you have a robust chromosome map, the likelihood that the segment data will reveal the connection increases!
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Matches with two segments sometimes show up in Clusters with strong “gray cell” links to other Clusters – sometimes a closely related Cluster (indicating one Common Ancestor link to the Match) and sometimes to very different (even different side) Clusters (indicating two separate Common Ancestors. Jim
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Hi Jim,Yes, keep everybody. The non DNA matches might have good trees, that show how the DNA matches are related or vise versa. They are all cousins, just not all share DNA. Still plugging away at my matches. My problem is not many matches and tiny segments.Debbie
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Debbie – I have learned to push the small segments to the back of my mind (remembering, however, that the Common Ancestor is not close) and to focus on the genealogy. They all count (for me) and they often tend to group together – see my new Gold Star comment.
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Hi Jim,Trying to gather any clue to do the genealogy. The families go back to Europe. Trying to pin down locations. So clues from these matches might get me closer.Debbie
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Kevin ho un match di quel gruppo sconosciuto che myheritage nel suo albero ha un icona del dna e quando premo sul icona dna esce la corrispondenza con una piccola stellina color nero ha fianco della sua data di nascita che e del 2018.sotto e scritto analisi del dna privata ma ha una stellina color nero e la sua corrispondenza e visibile.pero hanche i suoi genitori hanno testato perche anche loro hanno l icona del dna nel loro albero ma non hanno la stellina color neto che ha laloro figlia che mhyeritage mette.che significa jim.che e privato ho no? Grazie Il 29 dic 2023 4:48 PM, “Kevin Capodivento” capodiventokevin6@gmail.com ha scritto:
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Kevin, Sorry, but I do not know. Jim
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Ciao jim ,kevin ho una corrispondenza di quel gruppo sconosciuto che lei sarebbe una bambina del 3018 cosi e scritto e su suo albero ce icona dna premo e esce una stellina color nero.poi ho visto che anche i suoi genitori hanno fatto test perche anche loro hanno icona del dna ma non hanno la stellina color nero che mhyeritage ha messo alla loro figlia.che vuol dire che i risultati del padre e dell s madre sono privati?
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Hi Jim,
Well, I would say, there is no quandary. Keep it all and continue! It is all a wonderful learning experience in science, communication with an end game of relationships – whether genetic or not. All things matter when choosing a rabbit hole like this one. 🙂
You have a gift of teaching and I would have to say, tons of patience with not just your project, but all of our repeated questions.
You set a great example and give clear information. Rather than a rabbit hole it is a learn-along.
Thank you!
Ellen
(yes, we match…it appears, way back at the Farrar line) or perhaps several little tiny segments that lead that way. It’s all relative. I really appreciate your work!
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Ellen – Thank you! What a great holiday gift of encouragement you sent me. My genealogy cup has always been 99% full – it’s a great hobby. And the DNA tools are a fantastic addition. And to think – we are only scratching the surface – much more to come…. Wishing everyone a Happy New Year. Jim
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A wrong rabbit hole! What an apt description of a person not part of our DNA!Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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I think you have it absolutely correct!Regards,BenMAJOR USAF, RETIREDSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Jim, Yes, absolutely keep both, but with delineation of the genetic confirmations. I use the fields, notes & attached icons (one for each database). There really are multiple categories for cousins lacking DNA segment matching. Not tested, tested but lacking a match but reasonably confirmed through secondary DNA matches, tested but lacking a match and any confirmations. The last must be evaluated as possible (even likely) NPE’s, and many of us have now lost tree branches previously (and erroneously) confirmed with years of traditional genealogy research.
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I like the different nuances of non-Matches. I’ve had some that were Matches on day, and not the next day. Still clues to be worked out.
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took on your quest to account for segments from shared ancestors (DNA Painter) but even when I passed 50% of my DNA markers accounted for it really didn’t get me anywhere. On my mother’s DNA I have traced and connected over 1000 DNA matches and because of some unique pedigree collapse and several double first cousins have made DNA connections backed by paper trail of 8th cousins..~19 cM…
I mark all my dna matches with asterisks at end of surname an include multiple DNA custom fields in FTM to track matches, screen names, emails, etc.
Let the paper trail be…unless you find a DNA result which causes you to doubt. Build paper trails to support DNA relationships.
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Erik – good advice. I have a spreadsheet of all segments (by Triangulated Groups) and a Spreadsheet for all Matches with Common Ancestors. There is “some” overlap… and still thousands of Ancestry Matches in neither. Hoping someday that Clusters may link most. A lot of work.
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Keep all the findings, but clearly mark the genetic findings, for your test.. You might eventually find that although you don’t have a DNA match to a finding, one of your close relatives might. Your close relative might have more extensive DNA than you have on the line that the finding represents, which might be more helpful in working on a family line.
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Sandra, good advice – I need to incorporate key Matches with close relatives.
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Well said. I’m sure most of us have relatives whom we know are not biologically related. It’s the same with those we can’t prove via DNA. Family interviews, documents, Census records, and so on confirm a person is a family member. For me, DNA is yet another tool to add to the toolbox. When it poses questions, that’s just another “crime” to solve, LOL!
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Ron – I agree – for me the genealogy is the hobby, with DNA as a very helpful tool.
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Hello Jim,
this is basically the same when identifying a NPE, right? How do handle such a situation, with all the genealogy we’re researched and collected (apart from all the other implications if this happens at our parents/grandparents level)?
I have kept that information, not only because of all the work that went into it, but to keep this information for others. However, my interest is on the bloodline, the DNA connection, or to use your words, “who is responsible for each of my quirks”.
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Andreas, I agree. I now have some “cut off” branches – but keep that info (noted separately) to keep me, and others, from going down the same rabbit hole.
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I have this with a low cM match on my Dad’s side and a fairly convincing match with genealogy records to my Mom’s side. in fact its the only record match I have for a particular maternal 2x greatgrandmother. I think both could be right, the match is from Northern Ireland early 1800s, seems to be endogamy or a common Scots or Irish ancestor in the DNA stew from what I see on 23andme and MH. interesting topic!
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Sari, I remain unafraid of low cM Matches. I spent 35 years researching with no cM matching, and we have many, many cousins that don’t test and that do test, but don’t Match.
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